The Shocking Truth about Big Tech Companies Layoffs and Return to Office

But prior to 2020, you had the most of the time. It was either Swiss for technical roles, Your job status was either like very elite or the company is pretty flexible with letting you be remote, but most of us is in the office.

Let me tell you what's happening now for the listeners Companies, especially a lot of these big tech companies, the big companies. They hired all these people. You know they really wasn't hit that hard by COVID, they really hadn't did layoffs. You know. Now they're saying, oh, we're filling the effects of COVID and laying off Why Nobody wants to go back into the office anymore. And then guess, quite naturally, maybe revenue has declined like mate, but not as much as they're claiming. What is happening? they're laying people off and they're rehiring for the same roles, the same mandatory at office in his lower pet. That is the way to get to getting people back in the office and literally wanting to big tech companies doing that. They laid off one of my friends and I was like, oh okay, yeah, all right. And then when I saw this job average half of my hours, i was like, wait, this looks like great, but it's definitely not that $300,000 salary. That salary was cut in half And it also fit.

This video is being brought to you by course careers. What's going on, guys? If you're looking to start your IT career, then check out the IT course at course careers, taught by none other than the great Josh Maddox. I'm pretty sure you heard of him, but we all know that it could be pretty pricey in the IT and this course is very affordable. And also, if you don't want to pay back those student loans like I have to, then this is the course for you. So check out the course careers course. My link will be in description. Use code TEXTUAL50 in order to get $50 off your course and get started on your IT career today. What's going on there? by? welcome back to episode 94 of the TEXTUAL TALK podcast. I'm your host, hd, and you know we always bring you all those textual interviews, man, but in today's episode we have none of them. Miss Lisa G. She comes into the podcast with over 20 years of tech experience, working various roles from software engineering all the way up to being a director of product. She's also an entrepreneur herself and start her own company called UR Tech, and in today's episode she's going to fill us in briefly on her background some of the things that she worked on in her career, how she feels about tech influencers, why it's important for us to be black people in this space and also having mentors And guys. Look, this is part one. We will definitely be back with a part two, but I hope you guys enjoy it And if you're listening on Apple podcast, spotify or Google, please leave us a comment. If you're on YouTube, hit the like button, leave a comment for that algorithm and really just help us make the show better. But sit back, relax and enjoy the show. How was your 4th of July?

It was actually really, really amazing. I needed a reboot And that's what I got this past weekend, like just from like coming off of two years of planning a wedding, getting married, all of those things I probably like unpack my wedding things. So it was a weekend well needed for me and my husband, the weekend was okay, but the 4th of July it was fun.

When I'm at my friend's house, It kind of felt like a Sunday. No, honestly, it felt like it was a Sunday. Everybody stayed there super long, realizing, hey, some of y'all got to work the next day. I go into work at like 2pm central, so for me it doesn't matter, i'm always up like anyway. So, but definitely it was cool. We had good food. My girls got to enjoy this up, because the last time we went over there they were my oldest was walking in, but then the baby girl wasn't walking, so I brought them over there walking. Luckily we had those good old iPads over there, so they helped us out a lot. But uh, how led you to the rescue, right? But you know, guys, we're here for a treat today. When her and I had our intro call, i really could have just hit record then and made that deep podcast episode, because it we probably talked about like hours of change today, no lie. And I was like, oh yeah, i definitely got to have her on for sure, but you know everybody's busy, it's the summertime and I got her here. This is going to be part one for you guys, but can you introduce yourself for the listeners and for the people that are watching right now.

Sure, i am Lisa G Carroll. I've been in technology for the past 18 years of building and scaling companies and products for experiential growth. I've worked at several major media corporations. That's mainly where my background is, although I'm pretty sure we'll dive deeper into things but I mainly work for TV and publishing companies of growing their companies from a technology standpoint. When it comes to technology, i feel like I've been there, done and all. I've been on the poor technical side and I've been on the business side And I've been on the IT infrastructure side before too. So I'm kind of like I hate to say this because it's like, if you're a jack of all trades, what are you a master of? But I do know what I'm a master of. But when it comes to tech, i do feel like I'm that jack of all trades but I'm a master at building and scaling products and businesses. Product management is my sweet spot, but when it comes to like companies and things but make me stand out the most And I like to pride myself in this I can build a product meaning from a product roadmap standpoint, but I can actually build it because I used to be a software engineer, so that's one of those things, that a valuable skill set that nobody can retake.

That quote that you were talking about, because a lot of times, people use it the wrong way. They always say, oh, you know a master of nothing or whatever, but it's a jack of all trades, is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one. Yeah, and I think that's true, especially when it comes to being a tech there, as we've seen so many different pivots like. You've been in the game almost 20 years, so it's definitely different from when you first got here to how it is now, and we've seen people who've never worked on learning new things for their skill set or for their utility belt have hard times finding new jobs, or you know high paying jobs that still in the same jobs that you probably met them in, and probably still complain it too. But I actually want to talk about that, though. How is it? How have you been able to sustain 18 years into in the game? Because I have a mix of people here people who are veterans, i have newbies, and what I always try to tell people about tech is that it's different from traditional careers. Think about if you're like a fireman, policeman, any type of a job, that kind of like a set thing, where I mean you may learn some new things with laws or regulations, but for the most part you could do that 20, 25 years, 30 years, and not have to learn too much new things. For us it's different. The days of you know, going to a factory job and putting in your 20 years, getting your pension and retiring those days are over. So how have you been able to do this for 20 years?

One of my favorite quotes that I like to tell people that, because I'm also the CEO and founder of my platform, UR Tech, and the first thing that I tell everyone that comes through me for a mentorship the only constant in technology is change And if you're not constantly changing and reinventing and staying up on your skillset, you will be left behind. Technology is a field that you have to continuously learn, no matter what avenue you're in. If you're in the IT infrastructure, you have to stay up on those certifications. You have to be able to know the latest and greatest hackings and things like that. You have to be able to stay up on things. For software engineering, you have to be able to stay up on your coding skills. I know for me, when I was in college, mobile app development wasn't out. I mean, I'm probably telling my age we were on the next sales. When I was in college, Mobile apps didn't exist. So one of the things that when mobile apps got really popular, I used to go to bars and know what nobles read books. I started teaching myself mobile app development because I knew that that's the next way. I have to stay ahead of my skillset to be able to stay relevant. You cannot get necessarily comfortable in technology, especially if you're on the business side, if you're going to be a product manager. How can you build a product if you don't even know the latest technology to try to implement, to scale your product? Because as a product manager, you should be building new products for monetization, for scalability and to be able to grow. But if you don't even know what the industry standards are, the latest, how can you do that? So you have to stay up on top of your craft for that. So for me, I constantly stayed up on the latest trends, like now I'm learning more about AI, even though I've been involved in AI before. Now I'm going deeper of like, how can I incorporate artificial intelligence into some of the things that I'm doing? And when I say the things that I'm doing, I'm meaning on a personal scale, because I have done it from a business scale for one of my clients that I do work with. So it's those things that you have to take the latest trends that are happening and see how can you learn about it and how can you incorporate it into what your day-to-day is.

That's a great answer, especially talking about AI, because that is all the rage And so many people are scared of it that they're not embracing it. Understanding AI is going to bring a whole new subset of jobs for people The humans that have to interact with AI, make sure it's compliant, make sure it's not being biased, which we see it being biased already. So those are some of the bigger things that you're going through. Not to mention, you do have a lot of people that are using these different AI technologies to bring us some products, some goods, some work, like, for example, guys, i'm a team of one, so anytime I could find a product that can help my editing process or the way I could do short form content faster on YouTube and TikTok and Instagram. I try to look into it And I found this AI tool called Opus Clips And it's pretty cool what they've tried to do with AI. It's not as good as a human yet, but it'll take long form content. It'll try to piece together. If it's a focal point, cut out pauses and string it along for 40, 60 seconds And it'll, and it's been some good ones. And then there's been something that has missed the wrong thing And I'll either go back to it or mainly change it, but for the most part it does help speed up something. I just throw a YouTube link on there. Within 15, 20 minutes It's got, you know, 12, 15 clips that I could choose from then. So that's cool, yeah.

That's, and the point is like you may not be totally reliant on it, but it gives you the help that you need And that's one of the things that I have been telling a lot of people with starting off simple, just using, like chat GPT, not saying you need to copy directly what it tells you when you answer the question, but you should take that and know okay. So this is how I want to form my question, this is how I want to form my problem statement, or this is how I want to structure my resume. This is how my cover letter is going to look. You know, it gives you a good starting point so that you're not thinking too much, thinking from scratch. And I'm telling people if you need to take advantage of it now, while it is open source and it's free because what's things, what's? you know these creators get things really nailed down Oh, but it's not going to be probably affordable, like it's going to be crazy amounts of money. And for those who invest, this is the time to invest in AI.

So we talked about you kind of sustaining that 20 year. what's going on? 20 year tech career, and you talked about being adaptable, learning new things, and you were talking about in college you're looking at mobile app development. So now could you tell us, like, what your first actual tech role was and what did you do that Like, if they're all, how long you stayed there? yada, yada, yada.

Okay, so if we're being technical in college, i used to do tech support for charter communications, but do I count that as my first?

I count it, i count it Because in college I work for the college of business like IT department, so I count that. That's why I say hey, I'm a decade in. I was doing I see something.

That's very true, because I know a lot about how the cable systems get over on you too, because I used to work there. But what? I consider, my first real college is when I graduated college. my first real job out of college excuse me is when I graduated college and I work for the United States Coast Guard as a contractor, as a software engineer, building out the navigation systems in the aircraft unit, in the boats and all of the military that aspires to Coast Guard and all of their units. And then when I say units, i mean aircraft, boats, any of those things that the Coast Guard used, and I was the software engineer who built out the navigation system within that. So how does one.

so let's list all the traits you have. So you start out software engineering And what else we gotta do Cause the guys. I wanna let you in on a little secret. She's downplayed like a lot of the things that she's done And I know like on here she probably can't tell us that it's like probably like Patreon worthy, but she's did a lot of stuff. So I wanted to kind of talk about what was the. we'll do it like this, instead of saying the next job, what was the next biggest role?

that kind of strayed away from software engineering.

That was like not a contrast, but a role that's different to, where maybe isn't as technical as it was when you were doing software engineering, but yet you had to have the technical expertise in order to pull off the road.

Yep. So here's the thing I realized that I didn't like my paycheck depending off code, like that was like a big learning lesson for me, and I didn't know if it was because it was the government or what cause. Working for the government is a whole different entity. You guys, they're working from the private sector. I just did not like it. I like coding on my own time. So then I decided to move into quality assurance, and I tell anybody that's trying to break into the software engineering side of technology, quality assurance is the way to go, and I think also the flip side of that is, though quality assurance is the most underrated position in the software development life cycle, and I hate that. For us And I say us because I still love QA Quality assurance is one of those roles that is going to teach you about every step of the software development life cycle. You're going to know what engineers are good with. Engineers are bad. You're going to know how to project manage, because you're sitting out with the project managers writing along the steps for the project management. You're sitting along with requirements analysts, business analysts, to write the requirements so that you can be able to have use cases You are working with throughout the entire software development life cycle. And I feel like this is like my OD to QA, because it really gave me that structure of being able to put things full circle between Because when you're an engineer, sometimes and especially for the government you're just writing snippets of code and you're going about your business. You don't know what happens with that code. You could really like not, say care less, but you're not really following that code. Once it's done, you're onto the next snippet of what you're writing. So with quality assurance, you are actually seeing that code being developed to be executed and pushed out to production. So I think that that is a very pivotal role. It was definitely a pivotal role for me because I was able to determine what I wanted to do next, and I still love QA. I just hate that it's not one of the highest paid and it should be, because it is an underrated position. But it's one of those positions that's going to teach you that or of like do I even want to be on this track of, like that software development side? Where do I want to be? So after leaving software engineering, i went into that QA role. I was in QA for several years and then I decided to move over to project management for a little bit because, as QA, it's easy to transition into project management.

Because you were saying that, i was like this sounds like being a project program manager, seeing a project going from end to end and keeping up with the. You know, if you're doing agile, the two weeks sprinting and putting all this stuff in there and scrum and all that that sounds exactly like what you'll do there.

Yeah, yeah, that's it, that's exactly, and I think that a lot of hiring managers don't necessarily see that for a reason, and it's not until someone like me has to spell that out for them. That's so, so, so what I will say? that's my beef with HR and tech, because it's like they don't even really be understanding how jobs coincide and they go together and how they gain so much experience Like someone from QA, how you're able to easily transition into a project or a program manager role, because technically, you are kind of doing that already from a QA standpoint. You're just more so on a testing standpoint standpoint. You're looking at it from a different.

Yeah, i definitely agree with that, especially when you talk about HR. I think it's like one of the craziest things to me is for one, job descriptions are stupid most of the time. Two, sometimes the people recruiting have never did the job you've done, so they don't really know how to spot the thing. So they already have some type of bias because they are going off certain things. And here's the kicker too. This is why I tell people just because I have a lot of recruiter friends we always talk about this how folks are too much on being ATS friendly actually may hurt you more than help you for the fact where your resume is supposed to be, telling a story where you could break. Like if someone has your resume and they listed when they did the QA role how they saw the program or the product go from start to finish in the increments and what they did and they started using the language that a program manager use, that's gonna resonate more with the person reviewing it versus if they just some of the stupid advice. You listen, some of the stupid. So you hear people on TikTok hey, take all the things in the job description put at the bottom and the lowest front and white. I swear to God, it's so stupid, people are so stupid and they tell them to do this stuff. That doesn't work.

They believe in everything that these internet influencers say, and that's one of my rights of like. Everybody ain't out here doing these things, and what I like to tell people cause, the first day, people be like, oh my God. I saw this person on TikTok. They did this, they did that Okay, but have they done the job that you wanted to do? because if they have not done the job you wanted them to do, why are you listening to them? Why are you even taking their advice? But yeah, we're in the age of. They're like, oh my God, but they have five million followers and they're in tech. They're in HR, in tech and I'm not discrediting people that's in HR or like. They're in a sales role in tech, or they're in a diversity and inclusion role in tech. You trying to be a software engineer. Why aren't you listening to them? They have no solid advice for you and your career.

Bingo and that's what I'll do. I typically my lane is I stick to staying cyber. And then there's an overarching roles I help people with where there's like system administration or IT analysts or if you're trying to get in GRC type positions. There's some of the other cyber roles that I haven't done a lot of. Like you know, if I had to do like red team or maybe some purpose team stuff, i know enough about it where I can help you craft the resume and tell you what type of skills it'll work on. But stuff outside of that, like people come to me wanna be project managers and stuff like that I send them to my friend who does the same thing but she's better than me, like she did on scale especially she used to work for LinkedIn and shout out to TR. I send them to her because, like that's not what I like to do. I actually briefly at JP Morgan, briefly did some of the things you were talking about, like leading projects and doing all this other stuff, and I hated it. It was boring to me and maybe because it was what we were doing, that I didn't like doing. But to speak on the second part, about people talking about stuff they never did. They do that all the time, and a person that does it comes out and tells you hey, this person is wrong, you're labeled a hater because you're speaking facts. It never fails. Someone sent me a video the other day of a prominent he's. I mean, i get credit, whereas, dude, i think he knows his stuff when he's in his lane but when he's out of it he's probably gonna crash because he made a video about people. Hey, get this free trainer to be a sock analyst. But person's never been a sock analyst and they brought up a tool that can be used more than just what they brought it up for. And I was like, tell me, you've never worked a job by showing me and telling them nice people. You know, hey, yeah, just get this trainer right here. It's free, not knowing it's that trainer that you show you how to be a sock analyst. It literally just shows you the inner work is a splunk, which is cool, but it's a foundational just letting you know how to use it. But just that alone it's not gonna lead you to it, and so it's just like all those things you deal with and me being the person that probably has made you know, i guess you probably said I've maybe made some enemies just because I speak the truth and maybe it could possibly affect people's money. But I don't care, because I only typically talk about the people that look like us like because, hey, most people that's gonna support you look like us. So if I feel like they're getting the raw deal, why wouldn't I say so?

And I feel like that is so true. And there has been situations where I've been asked to speak at certain events and different things and they're like well, why would you support people that look like you, blah, blah, blah? and it's like it's a little bit deeper than that for me, because I take my craft very seriously and it's like I've put in the years I've put in the work. So, no, i don't wanna sit on the stage with somebody who really aren't this tech influence, like they say. They just get on the internet and recommend these free courses. They have not held any of the roles that I've held. They have not built not one thing. And I know sometimes I can be like a little biased, but it's like, no, like I can really build shit, and it's like, yeah, why do I think that they should be able to sit on the stage with me on a panel and talk like, nah, this isn't for me. And they're like, oh, but this is the bigger picture, like you should be able to get on the stage and just support this event, because it's blah, blah, blah. No, it's all about are the people that's on the stage with me matching my capabilities, my qualifications, to same remote work that I do. I do not care about their social media following like. I don't come from that era so I don't care nothing about it. So sometimes it's a little bit deeper than just supporting people who look like you. It's like but are these people speaking fast?

Yeah, most definitely. Like I don't mind, like it's not some facts in between, but it just, it's a whole bunch of mess you know, but every time I think, because the funny thing is like the people like me will have the slow, but it's more organic, it's not? you can't go through my three years of content and find out something. I just told you for you to click on it, and that's why people start coming back. So, yeah, you know, i respect that. You tell me straight up in the consultation, though that's not it Or your skills right now that can get you there. People tell me that all the time. They really they respect that. They come in and tell me that And that's what makes me keep doing the honest stuff as well. Just because I can go sleep good at night knowing I didn't tell you hey, yeah, oh, sign up right here. Boom, you know, pay me this, you know $1,000, and in three months you're gonna be doing something. No, i could sleep good knowing that I don't do that.

Right, yeah, you know, because what they will do, too, is call people out. Oh yeah, i do it all the time, all the time. Yeah, i can't remember the name of the platform, but this was like maybe like a couple of months ago, they were calling out this woman of color about her platform and, like she helps you get a job in tech, helps you get this transitioning to the job of your dreams, and, honestly, she wasn't doing anything but like pulling stuff from Google from their free certification courses, and you know, everybody was asking my thoughts on it And I was just like, well, this is a prime example that I've been telling y'all stop listening to people, because they have a huge following Like do your due diligence, do your research. So it's like no, i don't feel bad for the people who got hustled, because people should research.

Well, I would say sort of being a little closer to that situation. I would say somewhat of the little nuance, right, because there were people who came out of those programs who were able to do stuff, so I guess most of they were more so the exception to the rule. But I also do think a lot of those people didn't do their due diligence. Like, even now I've sound the alarm and told people hey, if somebody's saying and you can go from no experience and three months back, 120k, that's impossible to go against. You know, a person like me with 18 years and you're zero years, You think that three months go up against my 10 years. No, but that's what people are not factoring in because it sounds so good to be true. These people are desperate. These people are giving their last, you know, because they want to go have a nice house, they want to drive a nice car, they want to work for a mold, they want to go. This is what we really talk about, the influencers, which I don't mind the influencers doing it, but I respect the influencers who've been doing it for a while to say they come out and say listen, i know y'all see me doing all this fly stuff, but I've been doing this for like 10 years. I didn't come in like two years and say, oh, you know, i did this and now you can go do all these different things, because what we saw was an influence of that content over the last kind of three years. And there's some people that stopped. One, people that got fired. Two, a lot of those big companies over hire some people. They didn't really have a real skill set, so they went to big companies where they wouldn't learn anything, so now it's harder for them to get something else. It's a lot of different things I went into And that's because, you know, they probably felt like there was leather straight, which you were, but prior to 2020, you had the most of the time it was either Swiss for technical roles. Your job status was either like very elite or the company is pretty flexible. We let you be remote, But most of us is in the office.

Yeah, we've definitely been in the office And let me tell you what's happening now for the listeners Companies, especially a lot of these big companies, especially a lot of these big tech companies, the big tech ones. They hired all these people. You know they really wasn't hit that hard by COVID, they really hadn't did layoffs. You know. Now they're saying, oh, we're filling the effects of COVID and laying off Lies. Let me tell you what's happening. Nobody wants to go back into the office anymore. And then guess, quite naturally, maybe revenue has declined slightly, maybe, but not as much as they're claiming. What is happening? they're laying people off and they're rehiring for the same roles but saying mandatory in office in his lower pay. That is the way to get to getting people back in the office. And literally I just saw one of the big one in the big tech companies doing that. They laid off one of my friends and I was like, oh, ok, yeah, all right. And then when I saw this job advertisement, i was like, wait, this looks like right, it's a job, but it's definitely not that $300,000 salary. That salary was cut in half And it also said mandatory in office. Yeah, now you're not making me mandatory.

come in and you're going to pay me lower. I'm sorry, but that's also because I've gotten to the point where what you want to pay, somebody will pay. Now the beggars can't be choosers. I tell them, like my new class was a listen. I'm saying listen, listen to remote security roles. They gave me about a time and and leave there and say, oh yeah, you know, two days, hybrid or whatever. I was like for what I do. hybrid doesn't work for my lifestyle with everything I do, it just does it. It puts a damper on it. But I was like for y'all newbies, you got some skills says, hey, i don't care if it's four or five days. Most of the start off like that. anyway, go in there and get that experience And then, when you can down your price, you can go work remote. Yeah, but I can know what it is.

This new generation don't want to work like that. They see people like me and you and they're like, oh well, she's always gone, she's always doing this, she makes her own schedule. She does this even for one of my clients, one of my class, new York Cribs. People have always said, how have you been there 10 years? And I'm like I actually do my job and I do it there damn good, like I do it really good. It may look like to y'all that I don't do much and that it comes off as lackluster because you know, you guys see me just pop in and out of meetings, do things, but y'all don't know what I do behind the scenes to make sure that my work is oftentimes seen, but I don't always have to be heard. So and it's like I put in the work to make sure that that contract continuously continues for me And it has for the last decade. But people see that and they just run with that and think that they can come in and call shots, just like me, and it's like wait, no, you can't do that, you have to put in that work first, definitely. And speaking of that I had.

One of the questions I had on here was about you talking maybe the high level, some of the things that you worked on, right, well, no, before that. One of the other questions I had down there is about you went from software engineering to quality assurance. Did you get paid more to a software engineering or was it more to a quality assurance?

Oh, so when I first left software engineering, i was getting paid less for quality assurance. But that's how much I hated working with the government that sometimes you, you, you make those sacrifices. Right, you make those sacrifices. But I became a director of quality assurance So I ended up making more. But then I'm one of those people that, like I said, i stay up on my craft. I got the contract to build out the NCAA March Madness app for college basketball for iPhone. That is when, like, iphone had just really kind of like became this big thing. Everybody was doing apps and I built that app. Now that app bought me lots of money. Clearly, that's the NCAA.

Up front or is like back in money that you still get money from today?

So that's where I will be very honest. It was a learning experience for me. I was probably 23, 24. I had no one to tell me hey, you need to be negotiating royalties. So I got my money up front. Now, if I knew what I knew now, i would have been asking in my contract at that time for royalties, for continuous money as long as that happens in the app store. But I had no guidance. I had no one. You know, i was just learning as I went And I feel like because I had no guidance, that's what made me start UR Tech, because it's like I don't want anyone to jump around as much as I did to find what my sweet spot was. So I feel like my play, my pay, has fluctuated throughout my career, especially when I was finding out what I wanted to do. Because one thing about me I didn't mind taking a pay cut for happy. It's because the real wealth is peace. You know, if you don't have peace of mind, you're not happy in that, and I learned that at a very young age and I knew that being a software engineer that had to be on a company's time was not bringing me happy, so I was okay with taking a pay cut. It's like as long as you could pay my bills, i'm okay with it. So my pay kind of fluctuated depending upon the roles that I took. Now what I will say now yeah, i probably made more than most engineers, but it's like I've been in the game for so long and my prices are very structured very differently now. So, yeah, i probably make most than most engineers.

I wish I would have. I put the wrong mic theme up today, but I need to get that fat Joe saying yesterday's price is not today's price.

Yes, that is very true. Yesterday's price is not today's price. Because one thing I will say with cruders always reach out to me. They always and I'm like you can't get me for that amount of money. You're going to have to like part you for that in order for me to come in and do anything. And then I have my own set of standards. Now what I go by. When a company does want to work with me, i have my own contract. They can't give me one. I provide them with a contract.

Definitely And that's a thing I've been pretty much seeing a lot of you veterans having your own companies and going about navigating that. I think a lot of us don't know about them. I honestly think that's the best way because you can go find your own insurance wherever you need, but they can pay you. You can charge them whatever they want, Similar to the big four. If you work for a big four, then you get paid based on what they negotiated with the companies that they work. They pay the main, the Lloyd or EYPWC, whatever. They pay them a lot of money And then they just trickle it out in you.

So that's literally how it goes, literally how it works That instead, like they, the lawyer, or you know some of those a censure, they may get the contract and they're doing nothing but contacting me like, hey, can you come in and do this?

And we might have to do a episode and they're like taking off the middleman, like I think that'll be a good stream, whether we either put it behind like a paywall or whatever, just only because you want the people who really want the information to come in and be serious about it, versus you know doing it. I see a lot of times people do like some stuff, like I go live or whatever, and people like action things that's not pertaining to us, like that's not what we're talking about here today. We got other resources for that. This is about you know either you got skillset or you wanna learn how to start your business and make those relationships to where they know okay, they can hire your company versus doing it this other way.

Yeah, yeah, i for sure talk about that. I tell people all the time, cause a lot of people do ask me like well, how you know they'll start their own company and they'll become a subcontractor of a subcontract, of a subcontract And they're like how have you wiped out all the middlemen to? sometimes, when it comes to like I've been in the runnings within a century that hey, we both fought for the contract And people are like well, how did you even get on these companies radars? And this is why coming from behind that keyboard sometimes is very important to do relationship building. It is extremely important to build relationships and always advocating for yourself and always being in rooms and asking questions. I am never too much of a veteran to go to a room, figure out what's going on, ask questions and sit down and learn and take notes from other people sometimes, because sometimes I could be overlooking or missing steps and things. So being able to really be in those rooms and network and, especially as a woman of color, they will give you contracts. They prefer to give you contracts and, especially as a small business, you can get those same contracts as an assenture, as a delay, like you'll get it. You just have to put yourself out there.

Yeah, speaking of that, i'm glad that you brought up being a woman of color, because I wanted to ask you about how is it being when you consider yourself like I see a lot of black women or say color, something like a double minority, being black, also being a woman and tech How has that been for you? We know this is pretty much the white male dominated space and it's very like you said when you did the first NCAA deal. You were younger and you didn't really have anybody lean on. So that's one part. It's like hard to be in a room where you see another person that looks like you. Most of the time you're the only one. How has it been for you throughout the years, maybe possibly dealing with either microaggressions or some prejudices or all these different things. How has that been for you?

Wow, okay. So my first instance where I felt totally disrespected was when I was working at a major media company probably one of y'all favorite networks, i won't say the name And I was hired as a director of product, fair, and it was there like Town Hall. That was my first week there and it was having their Town Hall and, of course, like all the directors and executives of that of the particular org we're doing, meet and greet And I was the only woman of color in that room. It was other woman directors not that many, but I was the only one of color And I'll never forget. A group of guys came up to me and was like, oh my God, are you the new assistant for the department? And I like took a step back. I'm very vocal and I could be very blunt And I was like, excuse me, like no, i'm actually new director of product. And they were like oh my God, it's your name, lisa. And I was like, yeah, and they're like, oh, i think you're our new boss. I was like, exactly, so you should probably step away, reset and approach me again, because what you just did was disrespectful. And I called them out on it right then. And then they just looked and it was like, oh my God, i'm so sorry. They were like super apologetic. But I also set that tone of like, don't fuck with me, like, don't approach me in that manner. Jump into conclusions will always sometimes get you put on fire, because why would you assume that I was the new assistant, like what made you think of that, when clearly here I am the director of the entire product organization? So that's probably been one of the most events that have stood out the most to me in my career. I would say that I probably don't have to really stand up that much to myself, because since then I feel like I set a name for myself And usually how I've been able to get contracts with various companies throughout my career too, is people know that I'm very stern and I'm gonna come in and I'm gonna get the job done. And I think that we're kind of traveled throughout the media industry And if you work in the media industry, we all know each other. We're like I have degree of separation from everybody working together. So I would get calls and I still get calls now of companies saying, hey, we need this product or this team with the to shake. Can you come in and do it, because I know you're gonna get the job done. So I like to say that I've set a presence for myself, that they know that I'm gonna get my work done And I'm gonna be able to conquer whatever task they is that they're hiring me for. So that's what I like to take pride in, And I think I set that presence on early for myself after those guys approached me with that manner And, like I said, work just travels really fast. And then I like to say my work's for itself.

It's a new sheriff in town. That's probably. They went around telling everybody it's a new sheriff in town. But no, I definitely like that because I don't know why. You, you know what they say about when you assume.

Yeah.

They could have just said you know, hey, how you doing, What's your position?

I could literally just ask you that.

Exactly Now this last well, not last one, because it's gonna kind of wrap up like the first part of this but I briefly want to ask you what you feel about the rulings on the fire of action, Also currently, how you feel about DEI. I know some friends that are kind of working that DEI space and they all have different things to say about how they really feel about DEI behind the scenes versus what they could publicly say. But what do you feel about this later's ruling going on affirmative action?

So the latest rulings on affirmative action has been like very weird, meaning like in a bad way, because it's just kind of like and I try not to make it into politics and things, because that's not my room, that's not my expertise and everybody's entitled to their own opinions But also this is where I'm like y'all gotta vote And I ain't talking about just voting for president. The elections that really count are the ones that's not the presidential election, like. Those are the elections that really count, guys, because look what has happened, look who we have in the house, and they have allowed these things to take place. So I think it's really, really sad, because now I can kind of see like a modern day type of division happening. I'm not sure what I want to call it, but I want to be careful with my words. I can just see a modern day, like the vision happening, meaning where maybe we won't get into Harvard, no more, and there's nothing we can do to say or prove that why we couldn't get into Harvard, even if you had like the 4.0 GPA.

Yeah, i've been seeing different things about it. I've seen how it was a video by what was it Dr Clark Anderson was saying about how, initially, a firm of action was supposed to be something else And it changed into something else, to where he was like this isn't benefiting us as a whole at all, because you know they start lumping other races into a firm of action as well And where they started benefiting a little bit more, i must, like I've been recently saying how some of the Asian community were like trying to back a firm of action when I think they still are doing good getting into the Ivy Leagues. And someone did a quick study see the Yale or Harvard or whatever but he brought up how, hey, y'all don't matter everyone else about a firm of action when you should be looking at the legacy students. They said legacy students make up, like what, 70% of the school and they wouldn't be able to get in unless they were in legacy. So y'all should be upset at that, not at the firm of action. That's like where these people are, you know a lot of times coming from bad circumstances and making it. That's really what it was Like and these people were always the top of the top. And if they wanna talk about a firm of action, let's talk about how.

For regular jobs, skiffle gotta be twice as good anyway, i don't have any proof of this, but I feel like for sure, early on in my career, i feel like I was that token. I crossed on multiple boxes for you guys.

Yeah, i think that happens a lot. I know behind the scenes we asked what they want their quota to be. I see it a lot Because even for me I always was trying to get a black woman on my team trust when I was doing my security stuff, or just women in general. It's cool working with all men. but what are we doing here? Why don't we have any? women on the team And then even currently right now I'm on the team. I was only just one woman.

It can't, but you know what it is. That's a. I have a story that I can talk to about that And I don't even know if my best woman want me to share it, but she's also in your field, in cybersecurity. She works with a team of all men. She should come on part two Shit. You know what I'm not. I could probably cook that. So she's one of those techies. You know one thing I'm going to say about us techies some of us talk and some of us live under a rock, and sometimes I'm one of those people that live under a rock too sometimes. So she's not one that's going to publicly speak, but I know that I've been helping her through those issues that she experienced in the workplace. She is the only woman on a team of maybe about 15, 20 men, and one of the first questions they asked her was like Oh, when you going to have another baby again, why are you asking me this, sir?

See, i had a joke, but I'm going to save it Cause you know I got.

We just like they want to ask that I got other jokes, so we can ask them to you know, and that is what I said to her, i was like they say these things because you don't snap back Me in my mouth. I'm going to always have something to say back, because I'm not going to let you get away with it, cause then you're going to think you can do it again. But it's the micro aggressions that she feel, that she probably would be even go to another, like I don't know what her plans are as far as for, like, her next career, because her next role in her career, because of the micro aggressions that she's felt at this company, which is really sad, because I'm like, oh my God, i've never really dealt with. I dealt with those micro, micro aggressions once and I put them in a place and that was it. Whether it's done by how my back or not, i don't know, it ain't, it's not in my face, but it's. It's like it's blatantly done in her face. But I would be willing to to ask her, because now she's about to get those micro aggressions even harder, because now she is pregnant again.

Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely. That would be cool because, like I said, i've seen first hand, like my company, nemo, three companies ago with one of my coworkers. She was like one of the few black women that worked with us And I would see the micro aggressions that one of the guys on her team would do to her, for us not giving her access, not listening to everything that's speaking up or not advocating for her, like she said, knowing I knew that she was like a great employee, or making her to fall person on things that were not her fault, like it was a lot of so she was, she worked with us but she wasn't directly on my team. But I would always say, hey, you know, speak up for it when I could, if it was like a thing that referenced everybody. But I think those are those things too. It's like you either going to, unfortunately, either have to adopt the masculine principles and just tell people they can't message you, because a lot of women by nature are not very confrontational, especially when it comes to men, like in the workplace, because a lot of them are scared. A lot of them may think they may get fired. It's just one of the reasons why you tend to see a lot of women, and this is another thing too I'll kind of dispel. It's not a myth, but it's like 5050. A lot of black women. Well, women in general don't negotiate their salary. Oh, I'm going to negotiate her all the way. Yeah, i'm going to put she's a little bit. I'm people like you and other other women in this industry I came across they go negotiate, but a lot of them yeah they'll be scared And I'm like no, i get your money.

Get your money, they know you to negotiate Right, because my thing is, unless it's like a super, super startup, you know they may not have a budget like that.

But when?

a company that's known, come to you with a number. Believe me, that is not their final number. That is their lowest offer. There's usually always a 10 to $15,000 range that you can work around with. And you know one thing my mantra has always been when they're like, people are like oh my God, you find yourself in these situations for me because people know I speak up, i find myself having to speak up for everybody, especially in several companies that I've worked at. People who are not even in my department, not even in tech, have come to me and be like oh my God, this is happening. Can you speak up? Blah, blah, blah. And I feel like I've taken on that role of being an advocate. But people have to learn to speak up for themselves And for the ones that are in tech. People always say how do you do it? And this is my mantra I'm in tech, i'm gonna always have a job. So when is there for me to be afraid of That? does? I'm in tech, i'm gonna always have a job. Like, what is my fear? Somebody, i can get laid off today and by next week I will have another job.

Hey, you write on that. But, guys, look, this has been part one. We got part two coming. Part two may be live, so we can actually interact with some of you all. I don't know when it'll be, She's very busy, so whenever she gets back with me, well, we can probably definitely do a live stream and really just do part two, or I don't know. I like this vibe It's calm, the kids are gone. This is perfect. You might just do part two whenever, and then definitely we'll have some more stuff there, because I'm pretty sure more things will happen within that time that I can add to some of these questions that I had that I didn't really want to get into because I didn't want to draw us into the past Another time that you had with us today.